Richie has said that you were like a second producer in the studio.

Well, I enjoy doing that stuff. I don't know; I care about that stuff. I think I'm a good editor. I like to edit to the point - too much, sometime - but I like to cut the fat out of records. I don't like things to go on and on without a purpose.

Right.

Sometimes if you're a musician or a singer, it feels good to do something. But if you're sitting as a listener, you're left saying, "Well, I'm glad you're gettin' off, but I got the point of the song. I got the message." I had this thing, in the old days especially, to outro the song and make it spotless. Fade the record. Fade the record.

You've said what you wanted to say.

Right. Now, if you come up with a little riff or something later, let's move that, put it up there, but the record should be done by then.

Did you sometimes look at the material more as a producer than as a performer? I think the other two guys looked at the songs more as vehicles for their performances. Did you not do that as much? I think I looked at it like ... I like to serve the song. To me, the most important thing is to serve the song. It isn't a matter of what I like to do, what's best for me, because nobody knows any of that crap. It's the same with being on stage. You're not there for yourself. I think too many people get into that trap of, "I'm here, and I have to make myself ..."

"I'm here to make myself happy, glad you're here for the ride."

"Tonight, there'll be no hits. I wanna do 70 minutes of new stuff, 'cause I'm bored." The people in the audience didn't pay that money for that.

Right.

So, it's the same with songs.

And the reason I asked that is that the number of leads you did on the albums began to tail off.

Yeah. It did. Well, you know, I started to party hard. I think I just started to ... I started to fade. Just fade out, interest-wise. I feel bad about that. I think my input, especially near the end, started to just, not be there. But, it shows, it shows all around. It all just started to get crazy.

Okay, I've heard three or four different versions of how you were presented "Joy To The World." Your turn.

Hoyt (Axton) came in the studio, which he would do once in a while, and he came in with that song. I don't know if he played a demo of it or he sang it.

I've heard both.

Yeah, (laughs) okay. I did not care much for that song. Well, that's the wrong way to say it. For us, I didn't care for it. I didn't see that being a song for us. It was just like a fun little kids' song. So, I got involved, once we were in the studio, with the modulation ideas and stuff like that. But, I was just really surprised. I think, when it was released, there were one or two other songs from that album ... what album was that on?

That was on Naturally.

What else was on that; weren't there a couple of other (singles)?

"One Man Band" was first.

Wasn't that like the third one off of it?

Second.

Second one? So, it wasn't even ... None of us had any idea, obviously, or we would have put it out first if we thought it was going to be as big as it was. I mean, Chuck liked it, so, we went with it. I mean, I appreciate how many people love that song, and how big it was, but I still, personally ... (laughs) it's not my favorite song. But, I love doing it, because I know that when we start to sing it that the people are gonna go nuts.

And the vocals in the bathroom?

Just what's been said 50 million times. You know that story, Tom.

Yeah, but I guess it bears repeating.

Well, (the studio) had a great big echo chamber in it. The studio used to be a Chinese restaurant ... so, in the kitchen, there was the great big meat locker door, and there was a great big echo chamber in there, but that had already been used on a lot of the records, so we wanted to get something different. And we were wondering, "How can we make this really different?"

Right.

So, we were always experimenting, and I used the bathroom. Just opened the door, and (yells) "Hey!" Yelled down the hall, and the door was shut. So, I thought, "Let's do that." I stood, face out, from the bathroom with a mic, like a bathroom stall, and there was this little hallway, and we put mics down at the other end, too. But, you know, that's not an unusual thing in the old days. Doo-wop groups used bathrooms all the time. Tile bathrooms, you know, like you're singing in the shower. Although this was not tile, this had a deader sound, but it was an interesting sound.

Kind of a chamber sound.

Yeah. Like that. It was a mixture of a bunch of sounds.

But, you're right about the experimentations and different sounds. Remember when the Crickets did "Peggy Sue?" They had to put Jerry (Allison) out in the hall, because the drums were too loud. And Norman Petty, manually, mixed the echo in and out on the paradiddles Jerry played.

That's it! That's what's wonderful about those old records is that they had their own personality. You know, you didn't press "button three" to get this sound or that. The old records were capturing a place, sometimes a hall, or outside or a kitchen, converted places. And sometimes different textures, too. And sometimes you'd have wood and rugs and a shelf with books in it (laughs), and that combination was magic sometimes.

On the Harmony album you had a couple of songs, "My Impersonal Life" was another one that had some odd sounds, with the guitar sounds and so on.

Yeah. And I used one of those African thumb things that's on there, too. Terry Furlong, I went to grammar school with him. And somewhere I ran into him and he played me this album he had, and it was a really good album, but nothing happened with it. I heard that Brian, that it's one of his favorites, "My Impersonal Life."

Holland. But, that's actually an old song. Mid-50s?

Right. It was Earl Robinson and ... the other guy, the actor's father.

Alan Arkin?

Right. I heard that when I checked in at the hotel in Amsterdam. I heard it on one of those TV radios. Just the end, I just heard the chorus as it was going out and thought, "What a hook! What a hook!" And it didn't do anything in the States, so I thought ...

And Floyd really got a chance to shine on that.

Yeah. Yeah. That was fun.

I always thought that Cyan was Floyd's best album. He was just all over the place on that.

What was on that one?

"Shambala," "Let Me Serenade You," "Ridin' Thumb," "Singer Man," "Lay Me Down Easy," and Michael's songs.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. It was just amazing with Floyd, that he'd come up with things that you'd never heard of. And then, once in a great while, you'd want to do something really simple and ... (laughs) if he did not feel it, he'd have a hell of a time with it. It was always better ... he'd always say, "You know what; I know what you want. Just let me do it my way." And he'd always add something and come up with something interesting.

To make it his own.

Yeah. I don't think he was really schooled technically, so that makes for really interesting, off-the-wall stuff, but (laughs), once in a while, you'd say, "Y'know, just do this ... regular, regular." And he'd say, "I don't do regular."

(Laughs) "I don't do regular."

"I don't do vanilla."

You were talking about your involvement lessening. Was this part of the "Seven Separate Fools" going in seven separate directions by '73 or so?

Yeah, well, I don't know when. I was just doing more drugs and being less in contact and partying. Just being burned out, and not being prepared. And then, just coming in and there'd be stacks of songs already, and the guys had already picked 'em, and I'd say, "Yeah, okay; whatever. That's fine." It's almost like something that you had dreamed of, and you get it, and then you don't have that purpose anymore. "What am I doing this for?"

Was that part of the motive behind changing producers, was to try to bring you guys back under control?

I never wanted that. I never wanted that. I always wanted Richie and Bill. I work great with them. And that really bothered me. And we even went to work with (Bill) Szymczyk, the Eagles' producer, we went in and did a thing with him. And he's great, but it wasn't the same kind of chemistry. And all of them had preconceived ideas about who did what, from listening to the records. And it was really nothing like that. And that's when I really pulled away.

So, the relationship with Jim Ienner (producer, Hard Labor and Coming Down Your Way) was almost nonexistent, then.

Well ... yeah. I remember that I did that captain's call and they had that song for me, but I really started getting out of it when we were there at Caribou (Ranch Studio), and I was really not in good shape by that time. So, I think Ienner came in and saw me like that, and had no concept of what I could contribute. And I wasn't contributing by then, so he saw a different guy than the guy who had been there three years before. So, there's no energy, and there's no reason for the energy, and I was just spiraling, or treading water, that might be a better way to put it. And I didn't like it up there. I'm like a city guy, and there's this "get up in the mountains, and you do this," and I didn't get up until three (laughs).

So, you did that one song, "Kite Man." And you were like an untethered kite at that point, just drifting. Yeah, I was. And that was written by (Jay) Gruska, the guy who was kind of brought in ... so I was just really going through the motions near the end, no serious involvement.

So, by American Pastime ...

I wasn't even a part of that. I think they got a track that I'd cut before ... (sings opening riff)

"Mellow Down."

"Mellow Down," that's it. And that's Andy Fairwether Low, and that's, I think, Carmine Appice on drums. I don't know if he's credited.

I don't think so.(NOTE: Appice and bassist Tim Bogert, both of Vanilla Fudge and Cactus, joined with Jeff Beck for a 1973 power trio album. Danny sang on the album. -- T.W.)

I might be wrong; it might be another drug-induced ... (laughs)

So, you were gone. Chuck and Cory finished it themselves and ...

Yeah. I brought in ... what was that song by Carmen, Eric Carmen?

"All By Myself."

Yeah. Was that on there?

No. Too bad, too; it could have used it.

Yeah. It was before it was a hit, too. I brought it, and I found it. But I was gone before that, but that album, I just wasn't there at all.

How long did it take you to get your head screwed back on after that?

Probably another year and a half. Just doing nothing, just down at that house. I think, about the time I moved, when I bought the house I live in now, that I bought from (Gabriel's) widow, and she had bought it from Alice Cooper. And I was in that house for about two months and I just looked in the mirror one morning and I was in such bad shape that I just freaked out, and said "I need help."

Right.

And, there were a couple of friends, and there was an upstairs bedroom, and ... you know that old joke, "Lock me in, no matter what I say? Don't let me out." And then later it was, "Hey! Just kidding!"

"Stay in there."

Yeah. And they brought me food, and I just kicked everything. Back then I was doing booze and pills and coke, and smoking two-three packs of cigarettes a day. I stopped it all. Everything. Just all at once, so about the third day ... I was taking pills to keep from getting convulsions and stuff, but that was the start of getting better. And every day it was just better and better, and then I started to eat healthy, and started walking, and then jogging, and then running. And I'd say about seven months later I got up one morning and said, "God! Life is fun. This is cool; I'm happy again."

Right.

And it was developing a whole new thing, and I gradually got back into the business.

Is that part of the happiness of it now, that you and Jimmy and Michael have all gone through that, and you know how it is because you have gone through that.

Yeah, but, you know, so many people have gone through that. I think too many of these books that come out and it's "I'm so special," and "I'm so great." When there are millions and millions of people, who aren't in the business, who have gone through that.

True enough, but there are also a lot of people, in and out of the business, who didn't survive that.

Well, yes, that's true. But, I don't deserve and I don't feel that I should get any, "Oh, you're so great. You're a saint and you're wonderful." You know; things happen. I mean, you could be living in Iraq (laughs), before the war.

	Yeah. But, you know, there are positives and negatives. I wish I could have remembered more, and I could have done some things musically then, and kind of blew the opportunity. I mean, I wouldn't change anything; I really wouldn't. I mean, the balance between good and bad, and I'm happy where I am now.

Right.

I can't think of a more wonderful place than where I am right now with my wife, with my kids, what we do, what we do on the road right now. I mean, we were just with the Atlanta Symphony the other night, and we just kicked ass (laughs). I mean, we kicked serious ass. It was really good. We have a new sound guy that is wonderful. We're all getting along great, the band's getting along great. We have a nice working relationship.

And there will be some more recording?

I would like to record; I would like to get the songs first, and know that we've got the songs. I think Cory wants to record a little sooner than I do. But, I think it's very important ... I don't wanna do a vanity project. I don't want to just, you know, "Well, let's just go; let's do it." You don't just do that. We're not at the front of the line anymore with songwriters, so we're going to have to find those songs. Or write the songs, or find people that will write them for us or with us. I don't think we have the legs to write 12 songs ourselves. I think, if we get a good song, I think we have the ability to make it a great song.

I'd agree with that.

That's what I'd like to see. I'd like to see an album ... I know Cory's writing, I'd like to do stuff - I'd like to do stuff with my sons - and just get everybody involved with the writing process and be creative. But, we've also got to have a couple of incredible, great songs. Otherwise, it's just vanity. We have the ability to really do it. I want to really be big on the charts again. I think we can do it; I don't want to rush into it.

But, the radio market and the charts have changed so much; can you do that now?

That's the whole point; I don't know. Jimmy Buffett seems to do it. His albums seem to do it. You know, Cory and I, we've tried. We've done every interview you can do, we've done PBS, we've done all of that. And, in a way, that's really out of our control. What can you do, you know? Personally, I really like putting the effort into our live show, to make it better and better. Better, visually, sounding better, and the symphony orchestras ...

One other thing that some of the guys have been mentioning, is the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame. Does that mean anything to you? It would be a nice thing, but it ... Yeah! That'd be fine. But I'm not pushing for it. It's not going to change my life. I think part of the Hall of Fame is political.

Entirely too much of it is political, right.

I think almost all of the Motown groups are in it. And they're all fabulous, and they're fabulous records. But they had guys sing with the same track, to see who was better. But the slam I've heard from the Hall of Fame people is that we didn't write our songs.

Those Motown groups didn't, either.

That's what I'm saying. But we were completely involved with our arrangements. We found the songs, we arranged the songs, and, I think, sang them fairly well. So, why are they in and we're not? So, I think it's just political.
And, you know, we have Hall of Fame (inductees) opening for us; they're our opening acts, so what does that say? I don't want anyone to feel that I'm slamming Motown, because I'm not. I love Motown. I'm just using that as an example. Anyway, what's going to happen with that will happen. I don't believe in that thing with lobbying, or a lot of people trying to lobby us, I don't like that kind of thing. If it's going to happen, it'll happen. Actually, I believe they'll look stupid if, in ten years, we're still kickin' and performing and we're not there, it'll just look funny.

You could be like what Paul Revere said about covering "Louie, Louie." He said, "I did it first, and I'm going to live long enough to bury that sucker."

(Laughter) Right.

And he's not in there, either.

Right. The Moody Blues aren't in there. There's a lot of them.

	But, the fans have been there, some of them for over 35 years, and they keep coming, and new ones are coming along all the time. That's right. Well, if I keep my health and the audiences keep coming, I don't see any reason to ever stop. I don't have some fixed thing in my head where I want to stop. I can't think of anything better than what I'm doing.

Official website - www.threedognight.com

Portions of this interview first appeared in the Three Dog Night newsletter. Special thanks to Madonna Nuckolls for her support and assistance.

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